Taking 'no' for answer, and giving justification

So here comes my list of "non-arguable excuses you get when being dumped":

- Looks: You can't convince a person to find someone else pretty or attractive, and trust me, you don't want to.

I get it a lot, because I am kinda tall, and guys don't really like taller girls. I can't force them and if I were a guy, I'd probably think the same way...

- Money: I don't have it know, and it won't happen overnight, so keep looking, I don't come with 20grands... and I understand if money occupies an important place in your life, although it doesn't in mine...

  

I guess these are things that even with the strongest willpower I can have, are things I will never be able to change, and therefore see no need to argue about them, because to me, they're on the one side, legitimate, on the other, you can't change a person's mind about them...

 

But more importantly, there are reasons people refuse a shidduch that I don't understand. At all.

- Family matters: refusing to date an orphan, a child of divorced parents, without even enquiring what happened and how the person went through it.

- "It doesn't feel right" As long as it doesnt feel wrong, go for it. Dig more. you'll know soon enough

- "Someone told me he thinks it's not compatible for a reason he won't specify." And you wouldn't double check?

Again, it's not about agreeing or not with the decision, as in most cases you don't really have a choice. It's about understanding it, accepting it with peace of mind, no regrets, and being able to sincerely wish the other side only good things.

When I get an "It doesn't feel right, although nothing's wrong", I have a hard time understanding. Why don't people actually wait to have a reason to break up? Or if there is one, find a tactful way to say it? Afterall, we're adults, capable of disussing issues without insulting or getting insulted?

Be honest, it'll help you and the other side move on in the dating process more easily. If you know what disturbed someone, you might decide it's actually something you'd wanna work on to better yourself, or not.

If you'd have to give a full report on the date, then you'd be force to face what actually bothered you, and it'll ease and make for successful further dating experiences, by avoiding repeated patterns...

I think it's stupid that people have to make up a reason for breaking up. I think that if someone is not ready to say it outloud, it might be that it's not clear in his mind. As a famous French writer sais '(Boileau, for whoever wants to check) "Whatever is well understood is clearly told, and words to say it flow easily".

Sometimes, it's because you don't want hurt the other side. Ever heard of "all is fair in love and war"? Shidduch dating is one or the other. Be prepared, you will hear 'not nice things', but don't get hurt, it's not you, it's the couple you were trying to create that is being rejected, the potential future etc...

  

Come on, be a man !! Say it ! Don't make excuses ! Say what you have to say! Face the issues that came up ! Be honest, and without hurting, give a valid reason for breaking off/refusing a shidduch!You'll benefit from it, and so will your date...

When do you take 'no' for an answer?

I read this article from Thinking Jew Girl about deal breakers.
She wonders what is a deal breaker in a relationship?

I would say there are none for me. Every human being is complex and one trait can be okay in someone and totally off putting in someone else.

That of course excludes things that are universally defined as not normal, such as mental disorders and criminal records

Even Middos are by defintion 'measures' and are to be taken into consideration with the whole picture, and not isolated from a person, a context, an education.

My question goes the other way round. If we have deal breakers, so do guys.

When a guy doesn't agree to date you, or calls off the shidduch, when do you 'accept' his decision? Sometimes they just make excuses, sometimes it's legitimate.

What are the things that you understand and accept, if the guy refuses to date you, or see you again?
When do you take 'no' for an answer?

It's not like we really have a choice when we get dumped, but we have the choice to understand and accept his point of view.

Personally, there a excuses I don't agree with. I mean that I wish I could explain to him how wrong he is for refusing because of that specific point ( not the general situation). And there are reasons given you can't argue with, either because it's legitimate, or so unrationnal, that no reasoning can compete.

I wanna read what you have to say before coming up with my own list.

So, dear reader?
What are the things that you understand and accept, if the guy refuses to date you or see you again?
When do you take 'no' for and answer?

The danger of time.

Time is a precious gift given to us by the Creator of the World. Paradoxically, He has no time. He's Past, Present and Future all at once.

I can think of one explanation for that phenomenon. Time is the most efficient tool for self-improvement. Look at the past, correct it in the present and the future, and watch the outcome of your efforts.
He does not need improvment, because He is Perfection. So He doesn't need time.

In dating, time is for sure an advantage. You mature, you get to meet more inspirationnal people, you get to give thoughts to a lot more things, refine and adjust your expectations and ambitions.
But I see in time a great danger too.

Another fear that I have regarding extended singlehood is the fear of loosing my objectivity.

Right now, I think I know myself, and I know what kind of life I want to build. But I'm scared. I'm sacred that if it takes too long to fidn the right guy, I might end up saying yes to a guy I don't feel is right, just so I'll be married.

Maybe I will compromise on things I feel are important to me, maybe I will overlook some issues, to make it look right, when deep down, I'll know it's not. But I'll be married, and that's what I'm looking for, no?

I have seen in my close and less close acquaintances the damages caused by divorce, mismatched couples etc. And I am so scared to be one of them. I think I keep that in mind all the time, to make sure I don't date or actually marry someone's who's not suitable.
But what if I lose patience, and lose this clarity of mind, and allow myself to go for things I normally wouldn't, just for the sake of marriage? And if I didn't work out in the, end, and I suffer, and i could have avoided it by being more carfeul?

Multiple dating

I had an idea, and I came across that post from Premium Non Nocere, and as I commented there, my idea is slightly different.

Just to summarize, he offers multiple dating as a solution to increase your "chances of meeting that special someone"

I don't think triple dating is helpful if what you have is to pick the one you liked from the three, and possibly entering a conflict with your now-rival-dating-mate On the contrary, I think it might increase headaches, commitment issues and make decisions much harder to take.

Instead, two couples should be set up, but instead of having coffee face to face, they should have it all of them together, have a nice time, and from then on, if it went well, continue on regular dates, and keeping the other guy (if you're a girl, or vive-versa) totally out of the game.

The rules should be that none of the four ( or six ) people should know each other beforehand, nor be set up twice with a person, be it a same gender part, or opposite gender, occupying the position of the actual date or teh co-dater.
This will save us from awkward silences, from boring conversations just to fill the conventional 2 hours a first date is supposed to be, and I'll spare you the rest. You can just imagine from your own experiences...

A problem that might occur is that the human nature is to desire what you can't have, so great are the chances you'll look more into the person that isn't intended for you. Are we willing to take the risk?

Now, of course, Halachic authorities will never agree with this, as the will equate it to mixed socializing, and therefore not appropriate...

But I like my theory, and if my friends would set me up this way, I would definitely go for it... Or I think I will.
Only problem, I get really nervous before a date, so now I'll be twice (or three times) as nervous... Ouch !!!

When to tell? When to expect to be told?

I have never been the type to get insulted because someone got engaged without telling me beforehand. I totally respected their privacy, and if my friends didn't feel like telling me they were seeing someone, it was OK with me.

But now, things are different. I rent an appartment with four other girls. One of them, my roomate is actually a friend from school and from seminary. We have kind of an history, and we don't have what you'd call a trustful relationship. She has been doing stuff I don"t approve, but I told her straightforward I wanted to stay put of it She didn't like it, but I didn't care.

One of all the stuff  I disapproved turned out to be a serious story with a guy, and now they are to get engaged officially in a few weeks. I found out by teasing her to know if, during her stay home for Pesach, something came up. And she answered with an evasive "maybe, maybe". A few days later, I asked her to tell me more about it, and she ignored me. I figured that after all, I've been watching her going out with him for 5 months, I was entitled to know more than what I guessed. But, after all, I turned away when I told her I din"t want to be involved....

Vicious circle....

I feel insulted that she doesn't tell me more. We're still friends after all. But I turned her away. So she turns me away even more.
I turned her away because I didn't care. But I did.

I don't know. I'm so confused. I don't know why I feel insulted that she doesn't let me in her life when I was the one to leave it?

PS Totally useless post, I just needed to jot my feelings down.

Older single

It feels good to come home after having been away for 6 months... As I was having a nice talk with my mother and sister this Shabbos afternoon, we were talking (obviously) about shidduchim and marriage and all that amazing stuff, and I asked my mother if, when she was young, she ever pictured herself, as an older single. She told me she never thought of her life that way.
I then said that I do, and sometimes, I picture myself as an older sigle. By older single, I mean those who are coming close to their thirties, live a life of a "grown-up" and arouse real pity to everyone around.
My sister laughed at me like I was crazy, and my mother said she never realized how desperate I was.

I came on to explain that I know people who are 'Older singles', and are having a hard time being it. I added that these girls were all great girls when they were 20 and never thought of the possibility they might not get married easily and as early as everyone thought.
I said that maybe, if I can anticipate such a future, it will be easier to deal with if the future turns out to be one of an older single.

Am I a pessimistic? Am I crazy?
Maybe yes, maybe not.

I am tired of picturing myself in a white gown, like my friends, pregnant, like my friends, running a house and a small (and growing) family, and its not happenning. So maybe, if I picture myself as an older single, it won't happen...

Isn't it worth playing the game?

(Thanks to The Pragmatician for the title)

For all of us who know about dating, and have had enough of it, or went through too many hard times, I bet those questions came up at least once: "Do I really wanna do this? Is marriage really worth all that trouble ? Is it worth playing the game?"

If you ask married people, they'll answer you with a glowing smile and sparkles in their eyes "Of course it is !!!!" But we all agree that the recently (or less recently) married people aren't exactly objective. It sounds like they forgot everything about the hard times (or less hard) they when through while dating the second they entered their bubble, never to come out (hopefully).
And maybe that's the answer. maybe the fact that once you are married, everything falls into nothing but a vague memory, turns the whole dating process into an small and dark antichamber that you even forgot you stayed in once you're living in the palace.

But maybe not.

I personally think that you have to believe strongly that marriage is an achievement, something worth reaching to be willing to do that. Then, after every breakup, or decision you made, you lay on your bed and say outloud "After all, it was worth playing the game, because when I'll be done playing, the reward I'll get for playing will be so great, it'll make me forget all those days when playing wasn't so easy."

And how can one do that? How can one view marriage as something "totally worth it" if you never went through it?
I can definitely say that even though college gets hard sometimes, it's definitely worth it because I know what I'll feel when I'll graduate. Because I've done that already. Because I know the feeling.

But marriage? If I listen to my mother/teachers, it's work, work work and work...
If I listen to my married friends, it's bliss, bliss, and bliss...
Granted, marriage is probably a bit of both, but why do we believe so strongly it is THE achievement? Is it the jewish ( and for some of us, orthodox) society we live in that engraved in us this belief? Is it fairy tales and Hollywood movies that depict it as so wonderful ?

I've given that some thought for the past weeks, and I reached a sort of conclusion:
Emuna Pshuta.
Just like we believe Hashem exists firstly because our parents told us and taught us. And we do Mitzvot because we believe that's what He wants from us. And later in life, because we can actually see Him in every aspect of our lives, we positively do those same Mitzvot, because we learnt more and now it's not only out of belief, but also out of knowledge.
Just like we believe our friends that marriage is a bliss, because we see them happy, we believe we should go through all those stages who will take us there.

And once we'll be there, we'll know it was worth it...

A year later...

I know many of you (is there a you to adress? Do I have readers?)  won't believe to what I am about to say.

In a very near future, I am going to be dating someone. Nothing exciting so far. But yes, it is exciting. For me. Because I haven't dated a single boy in the past year.
I know it sounds pathetic. But that's the way it is.
I guess it explains the name of the blog. I felt stuck. Not like people who hate Shidduchim, or people who are actively looking for the One. I felt like on a highway, the highway of life, sitting in my car, where there is so much traffic, that the best I can I do is to turn off my car, so that a least I won't be harmful to the planet. And stay still. And feeling STUCK.

That's pretty much what I've been doing for the past year. Staying still. Feeling Stuck.
Now there are a lot of reasons why it happened this way. One of them is that exactly a year ago, I was dating this amazing guy, and it ended badly and I had a hard time getting over this whole episode.
And many many many other things came up, making it not the right time to date.
But now it's coming again. I guess the time has come

And my question is: Is dating like riding a bike? Can you forget how to do it? Or once you've learnt how it goes, you can't delete it rom your memory?

I guess I'm nervous...

Shidduch Crisis...

I got it !! Now I understand why americans are always talking about a shidduch crisis...
I get to say whatever I want, firstly because I don't belong to this social world, and secondly (and mostly, because this is an anonymus blog, and I don't even know if someone is reading it !!)

I registered on SYAS and Frumster ( I unregistered later because I don't believe in that kind of matchmaking/dating), but the one thing that struck me was to define your "Judaisme style" (copyright to a guy from SYAS who asked the question straight out in these words).
Whether you are a Modern Orthodox Machmir, or Yeshivish, or whatever else you are, you've just done the worst thing ever. You put yourself in a box, you have a sticker on your forehead stating a reality. That OBVIOUSLY makes you absolutely unmatchable with a guy who is slightly different in his dresscode or if his shabbos table looks different that it does in your house.

For example, a girl grew up in Flatbush, went to BJJ, learns in Touro and is amazingly involved in all kinds of chessed activities. Her father is a great learner, her mother is the best housewife/morah in town, her siblings are all perfect. They use real silverware on Shabbos, they stack the plates, don't use a plastic tablecloth, and her mother gets dressed and doesn't stay in a robe on friday night.
Well, there's no way she will marry an boy who grew up in Dallas, went to a local day school, learnt computers, left a year to learn in Aish Hatorah and went back to work, sticking to a Daf Hayomi Shiur. Oh, and by the way, he has middos that would make any BMG bachur blush, but who cares ! After all, he doesn't have kneidlach friday night because his mother never learnt how to make them, so she'd rather make vegetables and a meat loaf. So that make this BMG guy more eligible !

Labels. Boxes. Criterions.
To me, theses are the main causes of the so-called Shidduch crisis.
I find that people arez obsessed with the Shidduch crisis. But let's face it, a crisis is as much of a crisis as you consider it as one. The sidduch crisis has been invented and created by people to find an excuse to why they can't get married, just because there's no one like them available. Yes, true, no one like you available. And you know why? Because you are unique, like everyone else.

We're looking for a MATCH. Someone who matches your ambitions, onlook on life, lifestyle and so on. Who says his shabbos meals have to match yours? Who says her education should match yours ( to a certain extent obviously)?

Labels. Boxes. Criterions.
When you keeps putting people in boxes, it's very hard to look beyond the boundaries set for that specific box.
For example, you can fit in 'xxx' box if you only wear black and white, have horns and don't hunt. Silly, right?
Well, I don't find our labelling system that much smarter. Seriously, are you looking for a wife or for a sister who will fit in your family? You are about to start one of YOUR OWN !!!!!! Knowing that her familyhave plastic tablecloths and scrape plates won't make her a bad wife ! And knowing that his mother worked outside of the house won't make him a bad husband !!!!

As long as we keep on labelling people, putting them in boxes and having criterions that don't correspond to the reality we live in, the so-called shidduch crisis will go on.

This prevents a lot pf happy marriages to happen. Because people in one box can't date someone from a different box, although in terms of personality, character traits and smartness, they are much more compatible than anyone from their own box. How sad. How narrow-minded.

I personally have suffered from this. I find myself refusing suggestions that won't please my co-boxers. I have trouble saying yes to a wonderful guy whose family will be the talk of 'box' and our labels aren't the same color.

STOP. I beg of you, the whole Jewish world out there in NY and elsewhere. You are the one who can put an end to this. You can realize that people have value even if they don't exactly set the table the way you do it. Even if his background isn't as great as yours. Look at the present and the future you are about to build, about what you wanna become TOGETHER with your potential spouse. Because I think that this is what marriage is about. Future and togetherness. Don't look back, don't give importance to petty things that might stand in the way.

I am not trying to say I have a solution to the 'crisis'. I mean to say the solution is right in front of us. Tolerance. Open mindedness. Hope.

Broken engagements

I know. Divorce, Broken Engagement. Doesn't sound very optimistic. But let's face it. Life doesn't really give us reasons tobe optimistic...

I have this friend, she dated a guy for 3 months. She told me how different it felt from other guys she dated, and how so many things could have been fatal to their relationship and somehow, everything worked out so perfectly. How previous dates should have worked and didn't.
To cut a long story short, he proposed. She agreed. They got engaged. She got this glowing look and happy smile all brides-to-be have. She talks about the impression of feeling whole, and how everything was MinHaShamayim etc...

And then... A week or so after they got engaged, falls the terrible news.
They broke up.

I have this other friend ( not a close one, but still a friend) who dated a guy in the summer. Things weren't perfect, and after a while, they called off the Shidduch. So far, so good. But then, comes December, and they give it a new try. They are going out again.

Bingo ! They're engaged !!! They were set the big day for tonight (Tuesday).

And yes. On Thursday I heard they broke up. And on Sunday I heard they're back together and are getting married on Tuesday. And Monday I heard it's really over. And now it's Tuesday, and there's no wedding.

How can it be that two people date, enjoy each other's company, like each other for a long while, and when they finally make the big move, everything falls apart?

What is it in the engagement process that breaks the bond, the connection that was created during the dating period? Is it scary? Is it weird? Is marriage scary? Horrible?

Please, you people who went through this, tell me why this happens? Or that it doesn't really happen, and some people are actually happy....

Mazal Tov....

My brother got engaged !!! Yay !!
I guess that means he's not Stuck in Shidduchim anymore......

Divorce

I know you don’t expect a blog whose title is shidduchim to have one of the first posts dealing with divorce. I am not going to talk about the scary rate of people who get a divorce a few months after they get married and how awful is that, and how it could have been prevented given that they were aware of the challenges, and nowadays and blablabla.

I am talking about parents. And shidduchim.

Let me put it this way: Are divorced parents a good enough reason to reject a SUGGESTION?

There are two theories on the subject.

Some say that children who came from divorced parents are more likely to emulate them, make the same mistakes and therefore, will probably end up divorced themselves, considering divorce as an option to a marriage that is falling apart. They also have commitment issues, or on the other end of the spectrum, will do anything to get married to escape their family.

Some say that children who have suffered a divorce in their home, are more likely to invest all they can to make their marriage work, are willing to make more compromises and so on.

And which one is true?

To my humble opinion, things are a little more complicated.

I find it true that those children who came from a broken home have as a role-model a broken couple. True, they are missing out on a lot. And even truer, they might want to get married in order to escape from their house. But if we look at it the other way, they are also kind of gifted. They are aware that marriage is something fragile, something that needs to be handled carefully, dealt with care and devotion; selflessness and altruism. And it’s not an emergency exit they are looking for, rather looking forward to build, instead of watching something destroyed. And yes, they are willing to compromise much more, they are able to identify attitudes that might be destructive whereas children who grew up in regular homes, might not be able to know what could be the consequences of some of their attitudes. And yes, they might consider divorce an option. But I find that this is intrinsically connected to the commitment issue.

In fact, I find that they are reluctant to commit, not because they are scared to get married, but because they are scared that the other person might leave them, just like one of the parents did to the other. They know the risk as a reality, not just as statistics. And in that way, that’s how divorce becomes an option. Because they are scared that if things don’t work out, it’ll end just like their parents’ marriage did. And it will hurt just like it hurt when the parents split up. They know they will do anything to make the marriage work, to avoid anymore suffering, but what if he/she doesn’t feel that way?

And then, technical issues, who comes to visit when, how to tell the kids, who will pay for the wedding expenses…

I get it, marrying someone who comes from a broken home can be off-putting, scary.

And what about marrying an orphan? Ah, it’s not his fault at all? Well, it’s not his fault his parents divorced either. And if things were done the right way, he might have less suffering buried inside than the orphan.

Who are we? How can we decide that a person isn’t good enough for you because his parents were wise enough to split up to save them from witnessing fights, conflicts and tears?

I would love to hear your thoughts and experiences on the subject.

You, whoever you are, if anyone is reading me…